Sunday, March 26, 2017

Finally, a taker

Author: Roberto Muehlenkamp
Yesterday I received the following e-mail message, in response to my 2011 Challenge to Supporters of the Revisionist Transit Camp Theory:

I, Jake O'connor, hereby accept your Challenge to Supporters of the Revisionist Transit Camp Theory as stated on the Holocaust Controversies blog site under [url of Challenge blog], and undertake to, within 365 days after this date, provide proof of at least one person identified by name who was transited through either of the camps Chełmno, Bełżec, Sobibór or Treblinka to the Nazi-occupied Soviet territories in 1942/43, in the manner more precisely described in the Challenge, to the Arbiter(s) chosen by me from among those mentioned in the Challenge. You will be immediately notified of the Arbiter(s) identity and the proof submitted to such Arbiter(s).»
I do not have a website/blog and have not engaged in online discussion about the holocaust before, but I can answer this challenge and as soon as they activate my RODOH account I'll post about it.


So Mr. Jake O’Connor thinks he can accomplish what no "Revisionist", including our usual customers Mattogno and Graf, has been able to accomplish in almost 72 years since the end of World War II. He thinks he can provide proof that at least one named Jewish individual was transported to Chełmno, Bełżec, Sobibór or Treblinka in the years 1942 or 1943, and then taken from there to a destination in the Reichskommissariat Ostland, the Reichskommissariat Ukraine or the Soviet territories under German military administration. He has undertaken to, until 25.03.2018, submit such proof to the Arbiter(s) chosen by him from among those mentioned in the Challenge.

Well then, good luck, Jake. And please send me the link to that RODOH post you’re announcing.

Update, 28.03.2017: Jake O'Connor's submission and my reply thereto can be read here.

10 comments:

The Black Rabbit of Inlé said...

G. Rudolf claims a Siegmund Rothstein was deported through Treblinka in an article he published in Feb on CODOH and in March on IH:

"One Survivor, One Single Survivor! Treblinka Transitees" by Germar Rudolf
https://codoh.com/library/document/4230/?lang=en
http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/9/2/4230

He was relying on an older article originally written in French:

"Gassed at Treblinka and deceased in Minsk" by Jean-Marie Boisdefeu
https://codoh.com/library/document/4223/?lang=en

It seems to all stem from a mistake in the "Yizkor book of the Kitzingen community" [list of 430 Jews from Kitzingen, Germany] or one a YV clerk made inputting details from the list into the database of Shoah victims:

Item ID....................9443455
Title......................Yizkor book of the Kitzingen community with names and biographic
...........................data of Jews who perished during the Holocaust
Places.....................Kitzingen,Kitzingen (Mainfranken),Bavaria,Germany
Earliest Date..............1996
Latest Date................1996
Type of material...........Yizkor book
Type of material...........List of murdered Jews
Number of names on list....430
Language...................German
Record Group...............O.41 - Lists and Documentation of Perished and Persecuted Collection.................similar items
File Number................1412
No. of pages/frames........172

Above from "http://collections1.yadvashem.org" but I can't link, also listed at:
http://db.yadvashem.org/deportation/resourcesDetails.html?language=en&itemId=9443455

Neither Boisdefeu or Rudolf bother checking the actual source, unsurprisingly.

Sergey Romanov said...

We should obviously expect some "outliers" just based on various typos and mistakes, as obviously happened in the case of Rothstein.

Sergey Romanov said...

This reminded me how the little grey rabbit once tried to use Arnost Tauber's testimony to prove that people could be moved from Treblinka to Auschwitz. Indeed, in an NMT volume Tauber is quoted as saying that he was in Treblinka, albeit it was clearly a mistaken transcription of Trzebinia.

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/08/holocaust-minutiae-arnost-tauber-dov.html
http://auschwitzstudygroup.com/auschwitz-sub-camps/625-trzebinia-testimonies

Roberto Muehlenkamp said...

Boisdefeau claims that:

«many Berliners (in addition to elderly Jews from other parts of Germany) were deported to Theresienstadt and then from there to Treblinka, but for the German authorities none of those unable to work died at Treblinka and all of those who didn’t return died in Minsk or elsewhere.»

7,968 Jews are listed by the German Federal Archives as having been deported or presumably deported to Treblinka ("Deportationsort" = place of deportation), largely from the Theresienstadt ghetto.

A short check (100 names picked at random) suggests that none of these 7,968 Jews is stated to have gone any further than Treblinka. So either Boisdefeau can point out one or the other entry whereby there was a final destination after Treblinka, or the suspicion is warranted that he made up the above.

Roberto Muehlenkamp said...

Boisdefeau:

«Rothstein, born in 1867, was 75 years of age when he was deported from Berlin to Theresienstadt in August 1942, which means that he could only be deemed unfit for work and therefore, according to official historiography, had to be sent to the gas chamber; in this case, why was he sent to Theresienstadt? This is one of the many mysteries of the Holocaust religion, but let’s move on. From there, he was deported again to Treblinka on September 26, 1942 (transport Br), where, according to the historians, he was gassed at arrival. The editors of the Czech entry consequently go no further: for them, Rothstein died at Treblinka, too:

http://yvng.yadvashem.org/nameDetails.html?itemId=11619891

http://yvng.yadvashem.org/nameDetails.html?itemId=4911011

However, when the German entry mentions the death of Rothstein, it places it much further east, in Belarus—to be precise, in Minsk!

http://yvng.yadvashem.org/nameDetails.html?itemId=10784457

http://yvng.yadvashem.org/nameDetails.html?itemId=10760945

http://yvng.yadvashem.org/nameDetails.html?itemId=4129032»

The first two entries coincide with the German Federal Archives’ entry for Siegmund Rothstein. The first entry seems to be based on the German Federal Archives’ database, last updated in May 2006. The second entry is based on the 2000 Memorial Book of Theresienstadt. This source details the transport that carried Rothstein from Theresienstadt to Treblinka ("Transport Br from Theresienstadt,Ghetto,Czechoslovakia to Treblinka,Extermination Camp,Poland on 26/09/1942").

Of the latter three entries, two are based on the "Yizkor book of the Kitzingen community with names and biographic data of Jews who perished during the Holocaust", and the last is based on the 1995 Memorial Book of the Jewish victims of National Socialism in Berlin, Free University Berlin. The former two of these entries don’t state how and when Rothstein is supposed to have made his way to Minsk. The last mentions the transport that took Rothstein to Theresienstadt, but contains no information about the transport that is supposed to have taken him from there to Minsk.

It stands to reason that the entries in the Yizkor book are mistaken and the Berlin Memorial Book, which precedes the updating of the Federal Archives’ information by 11 years, took its information regarding Minsk from the Yizkor book.

Another possibility is that the former two sources are mistaken and Rothstein was taken from Theresienstadt to Minsk instead of from Theresienstadt to Treblinka. This possibility is more remote, considering the precise dating of the transport to Treblinka carrying Rothstein in the former two sources, and the fact that the Federal Archives’ chronology of deportations from the Reich identifies several transports to Minsk from Theresienstadt after the date (4 August 1942) of Rothstein’s arrival at that place (on 17.8., 25.8., 31.8. 8.9., 14.9, 22.9 and 5.10.1942, all with the remark that they were meant for Maly Trostinec, the extermination site near Minsk). If Rothstein had been on any of these transports, and not on the transport to Treblinka on 26.9.1942, this would have been stated in the Theresienstadt records.

Either way, there’s no banana here for "Revisionists", unless they can a) plausibly explain why the transport carrying Rothstein to Treblinka can be identified but the supposed transport carrying him to Minsk cannot, and b) provide evidence that any transport going from Theresienstadt to Minsk stopped at Treblinka.

I hope for Jake that he has a better case for his candidate.

Sergey Romanov said...

Same Rothstein: http://www.holocaust.cz/en/database-of-victims/victim/29772-siegmund-rothstein/

Sergey Romanov said...

Rothstein's brothers:

http://www.holocaust.cz/en/database-of-digitised-documents/document/92596-rothstein-rudolf-death-certificate-ghetto-terezin/
http://www.holocaust.cz/en/database-of-digitised-documents/document/82584-rothstein-heinrich-death-certificate-ghetto-terezin/

Sergey Romanov said...

Rothstein's transport is identified as Br on 26.9.42 to Treblinka.

However at http://db.yadvashem.org/deportation/transportDetails.html?language=en&itemId=5091986 in sources we see:

"List of 2, 004 Jews deported from the Theresienstadt Ghetto to Maly Trostinec camp (to the East) on Transport Br, 26/09/1942"

Whereas the transport description says "The transport, designated “Br”, departed from Theresienstadt on September 26, 1942 and was the fourth in a series of eight transports of sick and elderly Jews (“Alterstransporte”). On board were 2,004 inmates of Theresienstadt. It arrived in Treblinka on September 28 or 29. The transport was composed entirely of Jews who had been deported earlier from Germany and Austria, among them 617 deportees from Vienna and 584 from Berlin. Their average age was 72."

The list designated as a transport to MT is at YVA:

https://portal.ehri-project.eu/virtual/wp2-ehri-terezin-research-guide,il-002798-o_64-2-wsz-3/il-002798-o_64-2-wsz-3-304

So in any case there is some confusion here and that is the root of the contradictory data in different databases.

Sergey Romanov said...

http://katalog.terezinstudies.cz/eng/ITI/database/tr_out_date

Sergey Romanov said...

LOL what a failure.